These chapters involve Bernard Marx quite a lot. He is really quite different from the other characters we meet in this society. Give at least two examples from these chapters showing he is different and explain a bit what you think Huxley is saying about this Brave New World through his character.
If you chose not to do the above, would you please ask a question or two you have over today's reading, or/AND try to answer questions your classmates pose over these chapters. Remember, you can certainly post more than one time!
In these chapters we see how Bernard Marx differs from the rest of society. One example I found particularity dealt with his dealings with the lower castes. To Bernard, dealing with the lower castes had always been hard for him. As stated, "Bernard's physique was hardly better than that of the average Gamma." He is shorter than the regular height of an Alpha and is also thin compared to the rest of the Alphas. Because of these physical characteristics, it has been a challenge for him to accept himself and be confident in himself. He says, "I am I, and wish I wasn't."
ReplyDeleteAnother example I found was in Chapter 5. When Bernard is at the Solidarity Service Day and the loving cup of strawberry ice-cream soma was being passed around for everyone to drink, he was not feeling the effect like the rest were. He had to lie about what he was feeling when he truly knew that he wasn't really feeling the effects of the formula at all. He said, "It'll be a failure again," referring to the soma that wasn't allowing him to see Ford's coming.
Lastly, the one example that stood out the most to me was towards the end of Chapter 5. When Fifi Bradlaugh asked him, "Didn't you think it was wonderful?" Bernard had to lie about his feelings. When he did this he realized how isolated he was. He realized how separate and unatoned he was from the rest of the society. He truly beat down hard on himself when he accused himself for not fitting in. He thought that it was Fifi's shining eyes that truly accused him. There were a lot of examples I found about how Bernard differed from the rest. Maybe Bernard represents sanity left in a growing culture of insanity? Meaning, there is still someone out there who doesn't feel the need to fit in but focuses on what he believes, feels, and knows is right.
My questions are: What is the relationship between Bernard and Helmholtz? Also, what is meant by conditioning again?
In chapters 4-6, we see a few examples of how Bernard is different from society. I found one in chapter 4. At the beginning of the chapter, when Lenina and Bernard are on the elevator, she asks him if she can go along with him to New Mexico. Bernard flushes and asks her if they can talk about it somewhere else, because it was personal to him. Lenina wonders why he would ask such a question, because now it shouldn't matter if they talk about personal things in the company of strangers. "He couldn't look more upset if I'd made a dirty joke-asked him who his mother was, or something like that." Lenina says. Another example is Bernard's appearance being different. He is a few centimeters shorter than all Alphas are, which makes it harder for him to deal with lower castes because he can't look down on lower castes, and they don't listen to him like they listen to other Alphas. He is also thinner than an Alpha should be. These examples show us that in their society, Bernard is considered different, not only because of his appearance, but also because of how he acts in public, uncomfortable and wanting to be alone. I think that what Huxley is trying to tell us about this Brave New World through Bernard's character is that it's not perfect. Bernard is an example of this because he is "messed up" compared to everyone else. I think that Huxley is trying to tell us that if we keep on this path of technology, we may end up with a world like this. And even though we may think this is a perfect world (as Henry says, "There's one thing we can be certain of... Everybody's happy now."), there are still imperfections, and there's nothing we can do to destroy those.
ReplyDeleteMy question isn't necessarily for these chapters, but just in general, do people go to heaven when they die? I started thinking about this when the book was talking about cremating everyone when they died. Since people are now being made in factories, do they even have souls that would go to heaven when they died? And if they did have souls, wouldn't they most likely go to hell because they worship Ford, not Jesus? I'm just curious if anyone would have any thoughts on that issue.
Bernard is very different from any of the other characters, i belive that huxley is trying to show that mistakes are made and also that the conditioning may be either pointless or reversable.
ReplyDeleteMyquestion is is the savage reserve a place that has not strayed away from viviparous birthing or is it just a place were the lower castes are kept idf they are not good at their job. Also is bernard leaving lenina at the reserve while he goes to the north pole or are they staying together? I was confused.
Sorry for the uncapitalized words im posting from my ipod and something is wrong with it. :)
Bernard and Helmholtz are friends. Helmholtz is disgusted by Marx's bragging and unbecoming displays of self pity, but he puts up with him because he understands his feeling that all is not right with the current social order and he is a confidant with whom he can safely share ideas that some in the society would consider dangerous. Conditioning is the various procedures such as the hypnopaedic tapes and the shock therapy with which all citizens of the World State are subjected to from their decanting to the time they reach adulthood in order to make them accept the society’s morals as well as their role in the social machine.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I believe that all people who are genetically human have a soul regardless of whether they were born or decanted, but that is just my opinion. I don't know if they will go to heaven for not worshipping Jesus. However, if that is the case then the millions of people who lived in the Americas before the arrival of Christian missionaries lost their shot at salvation just because they had the bad luck of being born on the wrong continent at the wrong time and therefore never got a chance to encounter Christian teachings and learn of Christ. The Catholic Church says you have to be baptized to achieve salvation, but according to the Church’s doctrine of baptism by desire, God is truth and therefore those who seek truth are really seeking God and are therefore spiritually baptized by their desire to know God. If you accept that the characters of The Brave New World actually do have souls despite their decanting, that the doctrine of baptism by desire does apply, and that it is possible for the citizens of the World State to pull themselves from their cocoon of soma and conditioning long enough to have some vestige of curiosity and independent thought, then it would logically follow that they would be able to go to heaven.
When Bernard is with Lenina in the helicopter, he wants to just sit and watch the waves of the ocean and think and talk. Lenina and everyone else in this world always want to do something. Also at the party thing when Bernard sat at the table and they passed around a drink and sang songs, waiting for him to come, Bernard was faking that he could hear the footsteps and he would just copy other people dancing. I think that the author is trying to show that this world has some faults and doesn't get everything right, sometimes people like Bernard come along that aren't the typical person and they are different from everyone else and they think more.
ReplyDeleteon page 75, Henry and Lenina finish a talk about the however slight similarities between the Alphas through the Epsilons. The conversation wraps up when Henry says "there's one thing we can be certain of,... Everybody's happy now.", and Lenina recalls those exact words being repeated in her sleep. Why does the Society have to convince the people that everybody's happy? I thought they still had feelings?
ReplyDeleteMy question is why do they allow a savage reservation? A place where people are actually born from mothers! It sounds like something the state would be against and you know they aren't hiding because you have to get the directors initials in order to go. It seems like the state would have the power to shut down something like this and if they do have the power, why have they chosen to not intervene and shut it down?
ReplyDeleteIn these chapters, Bernard's rejection of Brave New World's great "river of thought" becomes more and more apparent. He refuses to take the Soma offered to him on many occasions, claiming that he would "prefer to be himself". This shows that Bernard will not accept the pacifier handed to him by society like so many others. His desire to feel something more than the base, surface happiness sought after by almost everyone he encounters, even if it is unpleasant, also exemplifies his urge to swim upstream in the blind "river of thought".
ReplyDelete@tawodniak:
Society must convince everyone that they are happy. If it does not, people would believe that if they are unhappy, everyone must be unhappy. Such is the cynical nature of man. This would lead to an unhappy society, which is, of course, unproductive.
My question is: How did Marx come to meet Helmholtz? They seem like totally different people.
In chapters 4-6 we meet a new character whose name is Bernard Marx. He shows different opinions than that of the rest of the characters in the society. Examples of this are when he is embarrassed when Lenina tries to talks to him about the plans to go to the savage reservation on page 58. He shouldn’t be feeling embarrassed. He also likes to be alone because when he is alone he can think about things. This is shown on page 88-89 when he tries to get Lenina to spend time with just him.
ReplyDeleteI think Huxley is trying to show us what life could end up becoming if we are not careful. These people see no need for some of the things we consider the most important in our society. Examples of things that they have gotten rid of are bibles, families, friends, and the ability to think for ourselves. Without things like families are we even ourselves anymore or robots created by the government.
What do you think the Indian Reservation will be like?
@aneibergall I think that they have the reservation to show people what it was like in the old days before the government took over. It also I would assume help people with doubts like Bernard see how “bad” the old days were so that way they wouldn’t want to go back to it.
When Lenina and Bernard are on the helicopter over the ocean, he prefers the peace and quite, well Lenina is freaked out and wants to go back. The main sign that shows that Bernard is strange is when the Director say he is going to move him to Iceland so he won't be interferring with the happiness where they are.
ReplyDeleteThis shows that for everyone to be truly happy, everyone must be the same, and believe that they are happy. They will always be people who are different and pessimistic people who dont like the current situation, and that is why there will never be a true Utopia.
My question is how much technology do the "savages" have compared to everyone else? Do they have some, or do they have none at all?
Bernard seems to be the most human character so far because on several occasions, he doesn't go with the flow. He denies Lenina's offers of happy pills multiple times because he would prefer to actually have real emotions instead of fake ones. At the Solidarity Service meeting thing, he appears to see and hear Ford coming, but he really doesn't see anything at all. When he and Lenina are in the helicopter over the sea, he wants quiet - something no one else is used to, but since he spends so much time alone... he likes it and Lenina thinks this is odd.
ReplyDeleteI think Huxley is trying to show that there are flaws in the society and some sort of panic-inducing event will soon follow.
Why does Bernard always change his mind about happy pills? He denies taking them at first, then he takes 2-4 grammes of soma at once. Why can't he make up his mind right away?
Emelia Otting
An example includes the event in which Bernard wanted to walk and talk in the moon with Lenina alone. Lenina thought it was atrocious to do such a thing and wanted to go do something else with a crowd. Bernard then scoffed at the aspect of being with a crowd.
ReplyDeleteA second examples includes the helicopter scene. There, Bernard prefers the peace, quiteness and vastness and says that there, he can really be himself. Whilst Lenina is just freaking out.
I believe that Huxley is trying to tell us that "different" isn't so bad; that this "different" can be the saving voice and body to our world someday and maybe even today. Bernard in the book seems so "normal" to me, while almost every other character is absurdly crazy. Others in the book regard him as "different"; I believe Bernard will change this world somehow.
Question: What is soma? I may have missed it.
Bernard Marx does not seem to fit in very well with his society, but he seems to be the only character who would fit into our current society. He wants to go for a walk with Lenina so they can talk. He doesn't want to be near large crowds or play Electro-magnetic Golf. Lenina is shocked by what he does and doesn't want to do. She is astonished by some of the things he says, and she remembers what Fanny said about the alcohol they put in his surrogate. In Part 2 of Chapter 6, the Director's voice expressed "the disapproval of Society itself." Bernard does not care, and is even more confident in himself. He recognizes his individual significance and importance and is not wavered by the Director's threat.
ReplyDeleteMy question: Why do you think Bernard leaving the Eau de Cologne tap running was so important? Was it just because it gave him the chance to talk to Helmhotlz and discover the news about Iceland?
Lindsey Miyazaki
Bernard wanted to go look at the sea and the moon in silence because it made him feel like and indiviual and part of something. "Not just a cell in the social body."
ReplyDeleteBernard wanted to act like adults and wait instead of doing it the first night.
To Lindsey's question: It's important because something costs a fortune. I don't get if its the actual Cologne that costs a fortune or going back to get it costs a fortune?
Bernard is different from the others in this world. He doesn't fit perfectly in their cookie cutter society. It mentions in the book that he is shorter than all the other alphas and that he is worried that others in lower castes will not treat him with the respect he deserves. Another example that shows that Bernard stands out from the others is that he wanted to speak to Lenina alone about their plans. Bernard has feelings and emotions which the other characters lack. I believe that Huxley is trying to prove through this character that there is no perfect world.
ReplyDelete-Dani M
One example that Bernard is so different from all of the other charaters is that he doesn't like the soma. It seems like everyone else in this world loves this stuff, they take it all of the time. They had it in the ice cream even. I think that Bernard might have taken at least 2 doses in the all three of these chapters.
ReplyDeleteAnother example is how he liked watching the ocean but Lenina was so afraid of them and didn't like them at all. He wanted to just sit there in the machince above the sea and watch the waves, this was the last thing Lenina wanted to do, she hated it and was terrified and started crying. He also just wanted to go for a walk alone with Lenina, he didn't want to go to a crowded place. But she thought that just the 2 of them going for a walk would be really weird. So she convinced him to go with her to a womens wrestling tournament, which he hated.
I think that what Huxley is trying to say through Bernards charachter is that no matter what extents you go to, no matter how hard you try, there will never be a perfect society. People will stray away from what they're supposed to be or do, just like Marx and they'll get ideas and be completely different people, therefore shunned.
My question is: What exactly was the gathering that Bernard went to in chapter 5, part 2?
-Nathan Reding
As I read these chapters, I became more and more intrigued by Bernard Marx's character. He is really quite different than everyone else in this society, which is refreshing when you have been reading about everyone being exactly identical throughout the whole story thusfar.
ReplyDeleteBernard's physical differences from his fellow Alphas were the first to jump out at me. Bernard stands 8 centimeters shorter than every other Alpha and is not as large and burly as some of them. He also didn't hear anyone coming during the ceremony when everyone said they heard footsteps.
As I read on, I realized that Bernard's differences from his friends were not only physical. He has mental and psychological differences that seem even more prominent at times. He has very low self confidence and is very self conscious, a trait that is barely seen amongst Alphas. Bernard experiences feelings of inadequacy when he makes contact with members of all of the lower castes, and is jealous of men like Henry and Benito who don't have to do as much as wave a finger to get those members to do what is asked of them.
Man, this is getting long. One last point then I'm done, I promise. I found a statement in the fourth chapter that I found very interesting. 'A physical shortcoming could produce a kind of mental excess'. This statement comes into play during Bernard's conversation with Helmholtz. Bernard speaks about how he feels like there is something inside of him that is just waiting to come out. He feels like he has a bigger purpose in the world than just living to serve the state. I think he feels like a change should be made in a world that hasn't seen a change in quite some time. Something tells me that Bernard is going to eventually come out of his shell and branch out to do some radical things that this society has not yet experienced. In this conversation, his physical shortcomings are definitely over shadowed by critical thinking and profound ideas. *wipes brow* All done!
Bernard is starting to become more and more apart from the rest of his society. He prefers to not be surrounded by a crowd. Bernard likes to alone, and the controllers do not like this idea because when people are alone, they are more prompt to thinking and questioning their surroundings. Bernard also wants to be an individual (pg. 94) and thinks that the community should reel once and a while. Aldous Huxley wants to portray Bernard this way to separate him from society and create a protagonist.
ReplyDeleteQuestion: what is soma? it was used several times in several ways.
Bernard Marx is a different man living in a world that is all the same. One of the ways that he is different is that he is uncomfortable about his physical appearance in relation to what caste he is in. He is shorter than most other males in his caste, and this creates a problem for him in that he has trouble giving orders to people of lower castes in fear that they will not obey him because of his physical inferiority.
ReplyDeleteHe also believes that because of his physical differences, girls will not want to be with him. This is proven in his encounter with Lenina in that he is very uncomfortable and has trouble finding words. The poor man is exaggerating in his mind the extent of his problems.
I believe that Huxley focuses a lot on Bernard and his problems to show that no matter how hard society tries to take away individuality, it will always be there by human nature, to a certain degree. Huxley is showing that there are still individual, thought provoking humans in a society so devoid of them.
Bernard Marx serves as Huxley's vehicle for placing some of our world's convictions about social structure beside this books radical ideas. Bernard is immune to the mantra of this society. He maintains his own worldview and personal ideals despite what has been deemed the norm. Bernard's experience at the Solidarity Service shows that, even when subjected to the 'Community's' rituals, he will never belong to a collective identity and no loudspeaker will ever define him.
ReplyDeleteBernard's contrast with the rest of his world is hugely seen in his conversations with Lenina. Lenina is, in every way, a perfect product of the system. During her date with Henry Foster, we see how 'normal' members of society are supposed to spend their freetime. But, when Lenina is with Bernard, the experience is entirely different.
Bernard actively impresses on Lenina his musings about intrapersonality and mental freedom.
"'Don't you wish you were free, Lenina?'"
But Lenina, who is completely at home in her element of crowds and soma-induced haze, considers this blasphemy,
"'I don't know what you mean. I am free. Free to have the most wonderful time. Everybody's happy nowaday's."
She understands little to nothing of what Bernard says, defiantly reciting her hypnopaedia in response. This shows us the eerie blanket mentallity of this world's people, and the depth that human minds have lost.
"Yes, 'Everybody's happy nowadays.' We begin giving the children that at five."
Q: There are moments where people other than Bernard seem to experience their own revelations. For example, when Henry Foster passes over the Crematorium, he thinks to himself somberly about the individual persons who are disappearing beneath him. Or, when Lenina remembers a time during her childhood when she woke during the night and discovered, for the first time, that she was being subjected to hypnopaedic lessons.
Is this supposed to be identifying other characters who may eventually come to challenge the communal mindset? Or are they telling us that everyone, not just Bernard, has at least some second thoughts about the world, and that the mental conditioning is ultimately imperfect?
The main character throughout these couple of chapters is Bernard, and while the disregard for human life is still shown, and more examples of this broken society continue to develop, we start to see what it is like to be an individual in this Brave New World.
ReplyDeleteBernard is different for others because of the fact that when Leina comes up to talk to him about plans to go to New Mexico, he is embarrased because she is doing it in a public place, while Leina cannot even begin to comprehend why Bernard is nervous.
Second Bernard breaks down because of all that he has been through, which shows just how bad it is to be different in this society.
My question is how is this book going to continue from here, is it going to show how characters begin to see what is wrong with this world and rebel for change or....?
Right now I am seeing a screwed up world with Bernard being the only hope.
Throughout the chapters it became quite obvious that Bernard is somehow different from the rest of his society. One example is when Bernard is with Lenina in the helicopter. He is talking about looking at nature and simply talking, but Lenina along with the rest of society doesn’t want to look at nature. They have been taught to always keep busy even when they are not at work and just talking is not keeping busy for them whatsoever. When Bernard is in the gathering and he knows that he differs from everyone else. (On page 84 it says: Bernard also jumped up and shouted: “I hear him; He’s coming.” But it wasn’t true.)
ReplyDeleteThe differences that Bernard faces are similar to the differences that we face today. Whether it be physical appearances such as height or weight, or just fitting in with everyone else. People will try anything to be like everyone else. We tend to change ourselves to fit in with the rest of the world. Nobody wants to be labeled as the outcast in their society and people are willing to hide or even change their true self from everyone else in order to avoid being that outcast. Bernard is trying to do the same. I think that Bernard’s differences may help him overcome future problems throughout the rest of the book.
@ Tom and Drew:
ReplyDeleteSoma is a antidepressant and hallucinogenic drug that, unlike alcohol, tobacco, and the narcotics of the ancients, has no ill effects (although,a doctor in the novel says that it shortens the users lifespan). The Arch-Community Songster of Canterbury uses it as a means to thwart civil-unrest and occupy people's free time so that they have no time for free thought.
@ Anthony
ReplyDeleteThanks, Ant.
Okay so my first comments didn't show? Bernard is clearly a different kind of person compared to the others in this society. One example of his differences, that mentioned a few times, was the fact that he enjoys being alone, rather than being in a crowd all of the time. Nobody in this society is ever alone, not even when they sleep. Bernard likes and appreciates the peace and quiet that come with not being in a group. He would rather go on a walk or just watch the ocean than go obstacle golfing. Also, Bernard actually wants to get to truly know others, such as Lenina. Bernard also likes to talk with others and try to understand what who they are, such as with Helmholtz. He doesn't like all of the artificial methods used by their society that prevents people from being who they truly are.
ReplyDeleteAnother example of how Bernard is different is how he doesn't really believe in their Ford "religion". He pretends as if he is on board with all of these beliefs about Ford, but he is really just putting on an act for the people around him. If Bernard let on that he wasn't into this "religion", someone would probably report him and would get him in even more trouble with the Director and with his peers.
I think that Huxley wanted to show, through different characters like Bernard, that even though everybody in each caste was conditioned to be the same, they are still human and their differences and faults will show through their fake shells. No matter how perfect the Commanders want this society to be, they can't control every single person and make them be exactly like they would like them to be.
I think I've got the answers to some questions.
ReplyDelete@Lindsey: My interpretation of the whole cologne drama was that the hotel, or resort, or whatever place they were staying at had a machine of some sort that let you select a perfume or cologne and spray it on you, but how much you used cost money. Much like a mini bar in a hotel room, you are charged for what you use, and Bernard was worried that he would be getting charged for leaving the cologne machine running and still spraying cologne.
@ Alexis: My interpretation of the Savage Reservation is that, along with being viviparous, all the people on the reservation are of native or Hispanic descent. I think this because on page 103 it mentions that the people on the reservation all speak extinct languages-Zuni, Spanish, and Athapascan- Zuni and Athapascan were/are spoken by groups of Native Americans in the American Southwest and Spanish also was spoken not only by the indigenous people, but also by the Christian missionaries that traveled to this area to convert natives to Catholicism (it also mentions Christianity and priests on page 103). So basically, the Savage Reservation of the Brave New World is the equivalent of the American Indian reservations of the late 1800s, with people from the American Southwest.